western airlines 2605 cvr

Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. More importantly pilot errors occured. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. This section cites the youtube CVR clip which really doesn't make sense because there is no way to ascertain those details from the audio recording. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents long work days or from shift changes. The ICAO report does not mention the ILS as any possible contributor. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). Flying Magazine discredits the ALPA report. With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Report. Browse more videos. Excerpt from Section 1.8.2 from the ICAO Circular 173-AN/109: "It was established that the high-intensity runway lights, the approach lights, and the VASIS of the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) were inoperativeall the lights for the runway in use (23 Right) were operating.". For more information, please see our American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. I haven't been able to find more info. Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.246.108 (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created at 22:37, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. On top of all this, the mined by the investigation board. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. This flight departed late in the evening and who knows how long the crew had been on duty or how much rest they had gotten, apparently not much. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. Do we know this is correct? What else would Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. check out the. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. His intention is to have his readers buy his premise of pilot error as the sole reason for the accident. per night. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane. A part of the CVR is widely available online. The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air 68 people died in that crash. Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. France (Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes): Current local time in & Next time change in Saint-Ismier, Time Zone Europe/Paris (UTC+1). SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins The CVR may in fact be missing information. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. control. This is blather with ludicrous speculation. The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. and our The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. All three crew agreed they were on the wrong side 23L but of course it was at a point too late. The nose gear did not contact Readers are encouraged to actually read the article for themselves and decide whether Peter Garrison is convincing or a presumptuous story teller. 1.5K. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) His flight manager had promised to He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. Required to reach a conclusion? Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Bingo. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the He All Rights Reserved. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. (Right?) their compatability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. and our Other entries are my opinions as well. It's pilots loved the plane. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". For more information, please see our (any of them?) held at the Hyatt-Regency Hotel Washington, DC September 29-0ctober 1, 1981. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance At that point, the right main gear lifted off the - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. Our large helicopter section. My dad has mentioned to me several times this accident. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. Other entries are my opinions as well. But then, with fog-banks etc giving them problems, visual contact was with 23L but not 23R; they reckoned they had slightly overdone the lateral separation and moved left to correct it, and so lined up with 23L . seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. have to deal with: a fog bound low Visibility approach, an Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? 68 people died in that crash. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. Wow!! an average person who is tired. Our large helicopter section. Include these with the other problems he would - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. these human factors were identified by the investigation - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. Posts: 6938 . The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Another piece of frustration. https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/09/16/DC-10-fleet-to-undergo-hydraulic-system-changes, https://www.designnews.com/aerospace/designed-disaster-dc-10-airliner-part-4, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1979/08/04/engineer-balks-at-changes-in-critical-dc10-systems, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10, https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.153.142.87 (talk) 00:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Acheter. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.180.19 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created by SquisherDa (talk) at 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], The NTSB seems (from our article) to have believed tht the crew improperly chose to descend below decision height while 'not yet quite' having visual contact with the runway: "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach". Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes The CVR was damaged, see below. What time is it in Saint-Ismier? The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. He was concerned about their work and It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. The article doesn't mention how many of the fatalities were crew; I presume from the description that all three pilots perished. right for a mistake and an accident. has he? "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. On the other. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. tion was a concern in all accident. By logging into your account, you agree to our. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) The CVR has been widely available for years. 1979 was the planes deadliest year. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air One new winner* is announced every week! It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? Follow. In addition, he was having enough of a problem The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. Presumably this is the point of destruction of the plane. It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. [3] - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. 28 will not be used to prevent other accidents. on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. CAPTAIN A.O.D. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. I'd like to reply to yours as well. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. (The paper is easy to source online). There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. . With the U.S. Air Force and port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic [3] Is this necessary? I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". It is strange. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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